CIO Exchange Podcast

Fintech: Leading Innovation with Trust - Guest: Anudeep Parhar, CIO, Entrust

Episode Summary

The accelerating growth of Fintech companies is a powerful sign of the unstoppable market dynamics that are currently unfolding. Agile, cloud-native startups backed by large amounts of venture capital were able to take market share from established companies, like legacy consumer banks, by creating the trusted platforms of choice for the next generation. In this episode, I speak with Anudeep Parhar, CIO of Entrust, a trusted identity technology company specializing in highly secure transactions. In this conversation, we cover a broad range of topics including the advantages of building mobile-first customer experiences, the importance of secure transactions in the trust-building process, DeFi (or decentralized finance on the blockchain), international regulatory, and other constraints that can affect the ability of smaller fintech companies to scale globally as well as what larger companies can learn from the success these fintech companies have had.

Episode Notes

The accelerating growth of Fintech companies is a powerful sign of the unstoppable market dynamics that are currently unfolding. Agile, cloud-native startups backed by large amounts of venture capital were able to take market share from established companies, like legacy consumer banks, by creating the trusted platforms of choice for the next generation. In this episode, I speak with Anudeep Parhar, CIO of Entrust, a trusted identity technology company specializing in highly secure transactions. In this conversation, we cover a broad range of topics including the advantages of building mobile-first customer experiences, the importance of secure transactions in the trust-building process, DeFi (or decentralized finance on the blockchain), international regulatory, and other constraints that can affect the ability of smaller fintech companies to scale globally as well as what larger companies can learn from the success these fintech companies have had.  

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Episode Transcription

[00:00:00] Anudeep Parhar: You can easily build better user experiences, new user experiences, which are more digitally native, but you can, you can certainly still keep using, your digital hygiene. If you don't have digital security hygiene today, it's not going to help you in a future Fintech application either.  

[00:00:16] Yadin Porter de Leon: Welcome to the CIO Exchange podcast, where we talk about what's working, what's not, and what's next. I'm Yadin Porter de Leon. The accelerating growth of FinTech companies is a powerful sign of the unstoppable market dynamics that are currently unfolding. Agile cloud native startups backed by large amounts of venture capital were able to take market share from established companies like legacy consumer banks by creating the trusted platform of choice for the next generation. In this episode, I speak with Anudeep Parhar, CIO of Entrust, a trusted identity technology companies, specializing in highly secure transactions. In this conversation, we cover a broad range of topics, including the advantages of building mobile first consumer experiences, the importance of secure transactions in the trust building process,  DeFi or decentralized finance on the blockchain, international regulatory and other constraints that can affect the ability of smaller FinTech companies to scale globally, as well as what larger companies can learn from the success these FinTech companies have had.  

[00:01:14] Anudeep I know there's a lot of dimensions to this topic. I know FinTech companies have come, they've disrupted much larger, more entrenched companies, large logos household names. In fact, and they've done this by providing better customer experiences, a whole new brand experience.  

[00:01:27] Maybe you can give me your perspective, just kind of at the top here. What do you feel like these new FinTech companies are doing right from a trust perspective, from a brand perspective, that's really helped them take the market, share that have  

[00:01:38] Anudeep Parhar: So from our point of view, I think one of the fundamental things that, you know, some of these FinTech organizations, what they're doing, as one as I think they are delivering the experience that most people are using an everyday basis.  

[00:01:49] For example, the mobile experience of being able to use financial applications, et cetera, in a mobile environment is really, really cool. And the way they do it as with the security, especially when you're using, you know, your mobile phone to phones, it comes inherently with the security that. So it meets the consumer of the financial technology and the financial apparatus where the user is versus the other way around.  

[00:02:14] So I think that's one of the biggest things that they have been able to do. They've brought some of this technology and some of these capabilities to the user versus a user having to go to some of these capabilities. And I think the second thing that I think that they're doing really well. There's more of the interactive experience that most users today expect this as we are in a hyper self-service world.  

[00:02:35] And, uh, you know, all consumers want to be able to access data and information on their schedule. They want to be able to chat with folks when they have questions rather than going somewhere. So I think the meet the consumer, where they are, and finally, you know, because of the security around and some of the other cyber security.  

[00:02:54] In financial and FinTech applications. I think they are leveraging the platforms that are available to a mobile experience. So, so those are the kinds of things that I see that why these guys are so successful  

[00:03:04] Yadin Porter de Leon: no, there's a couple of things I wanted to pull on to the one really fascinating of course, that mobile element too, and also that security native piece.  

[00:03:10] And I think it's. It's interesting that now is the time that this shift is happening now is the time that these FinTech companies are able to emerge and create these types of experiences and also create the build the trust they need to not just from a brand perspective, but a security perspective. And is it just been like these other companies who have been here who have been established, didn't build themselves.  

[00:03:29] Cloud first mobile first distributed first digital experience foundation so that these new companies now are able to take some of the new tools and just be natively secure and, you know, and have great experiences. So it's not a choice anymore. It's not, you have security or great customer experiences.  

[00:03:44] You can do both. Now. You can have security and customer experiences, so that, or versus an, so the false choices are aren't there anymore. And these organizations, these FinTech organizations are seeing them taking advantage of that. Is that one of, one of the reasons why it's happening now?  

[00:03:57] Anudeep Parhar: Absolutely the larger, the legacies that are FinTech, all the finance financial institutions are largely around a lot of different services.  

[00:04:04] It's not around that one particular transaction or one type of activity that you want to perform. And the second thing is just the proliferation of the experience, as well as, you know, the generational effect that's happened. You know, we have a couple of generations, at least in the last say two decades who have grown up.  

[00:04:21] Called sort of a native mobile experience, you know, for them either screen is where they get all that information, where they conduct all their personal and professional business. And from that point of view, if you are able to provide very bespoke, vertical service that the, that the individual is looking for, you know, you're applying for a credit application, you're just checking your credit rating.  

[00:04:41] You want to be able to fill out a mortgage applications. These are very specific applications, which, you know, these FinTech organizations that are able to provide and the trust pieces, right. So I fall already heavily is because the platform itself, the expedience at large, the mobile experience at large provides certain level of security natively in the platform itself.  

[00:05:03] So if you are an iPhone user or an apple user, or if you're an Android user applications, both. So to speak closed ecosystem caddy with them, certain level of security. And then on top of that, everybody's expedience today. All of us are, for example, ready, much used to saying the multi-factor authentication.  

[00:05:22] And I, you know, this is a, this is, uh, you know, the second factor of how you attend to get either the SMS or we, uh, biometrics or face ID, et cetera. Normal. They are not specific things that you do. If you're accessing financial data, you do not have any access in Facebook or Instagram. And at the same time you use the same modes to secure and access your financial information as well.  

[00:05:43] So I think that is the, the convergence of. people growing up with this, as well as the technology and the platform doesn't have to be provided some of that to identity and trust. And you couple that with there was a combination of some of the FinTech applications today. I think that's a win-win.  

[00:05:59] Yadin Porter de Leon: Yeah. And I think one of the really fascinates me is that generational piece that you mentioned too, the generation has grown up with this and the key component in there that I think that you highlight is that, is that when you. Connecting to all these other things that are normal parts of their life. These FinTech companies create a similar experience.  

[00:06:15] Whereas you have a larger sort of like sort of financial services customer facing consumer financial services organization, they've ported their in-person banking experience to this digital world instead of actually creating a digitally native experience for the end-user. Bringing all the sort of services, all the different pieces, all the complexity that they had previously, rather than looking at saying, well, what's the simplicity.  

[00:06:38] Why what's the end-user experience really look like? And what are the experiences in the way that people access their personal information or personal socials, you know, social networking tools. And they share that, you know, various are very sensitive information, you know, on those channels, how are they connecting there?  

[00:06:51] And how can we sort of make that ease and that friction frictionless. Capability experience within a financial services and application and create this, create this, just this feeling like you are, like you said, you were connecting to Facebook or Instagram or, uh, and then you're using it, you know, in that same way.  

[00:07:08] And there's that same ease and there's that, that same end user experience of that generational thing is really, really key because it's like you were alluding to it's, it's a completely different mode. Like the problem they were trying to solve was for, you know, existing customer base and then migrating them over into a digital world rather than.  

[00:07:26] Creating a digitally native, you know, generation to adopt this piece too. And then do you think from a brand perspective, it seems like that just the logo is in a brand presence of these FinTech companies are commanding this trust. Whereas, you know, when someone looks at some of the older logos, you know, for financial services institutions, they don't necessarily see that themselves and their generation is identifying with that.  

[00:07:49] And then what do you think, what do you think of the sort of the larger enterprise companies can do now can learn from these FinTech firms? When they're looking at sort of creating those experiences and pulling some of that generation into, to their platforms. 

[00:08:00] Anudeep Parhar: First of all, you're absolutely right.  

[00:08:01] There's the generation itself because the user experience, the expectation has changed. I think that sort of drives some of the innovation that's coming out and then the platforms, et cetera. And the second piece in my mind is, you know, this is where sort of, after you're looking at it for say a couple of decades, the interesting thing is the legacy financial institution.  

[00:08:20] You know, if you're focused, for example, on bank branch, modernization, meaning what does the future of bank branch? If you see some of the larger banks or credit card companies, folks are investing a lot of money and modernizing the branches that has its place. The way I see it as the pie is bigger, because there are so much self-service that are so much, so many more eyes on the screens or ability to go and do branches to do interesting new things.  

[00:08:46] It expands the legacy. Yeah. Also get to expand their services. They can do more and more things because they are making the branch more attractive and more, uh, so to speak sort of digitally available to their customers. And at the same time, some of the fintechs can provide these solutions when you just need ease.  

[00:09:02] There are certain use cases personally, for me that I would love to go into a branch. I haven't been into a bank branch in a very long. Well that's,  

[00:09:09] Yadin Porter de Leon: I mean, it's been tough lately, hasn't it? Right.  

[00:09:12] Anudeep Parhar: But there are certain things that I eat, you know, generationally or otherwise, I would still like to do it in person.  

[00:09:18] Why? Because of either the value of the action or other trust issues. But I want to be able to set a base. I, that I need to digitally do it in a trusted fashion or. You know, I'd like to do it face to face. They had our folks there who want to do it one way or the other, but the way I see it as the market has expanded, because, and I believe fundamentally that is because we are because of, you know, and you know, either way you fall on the spectrum, we are always.  

[00:09:46] Know, COVID, hasn't made it easy VR actually, even on, even more than we were before.  

[00:09:51] Yadin Porter de Leon: It's so hard to imagine that that was even possible, but it has proven to be a, more of a connecting experience  

[00:09:57] Anudeep Parhar: as well. Totally. So I was sending recently, you know, I finally got to take a, take a flight and I'm flying and the gentleman sitting next to me and his daughter, it was amazing if you just sort of notice how many different applications on their phones, people.  

[00:10:10] From one to the other, we have become extremely adept as humans and as society to be able to jump from one experience, which is more traditionally say social media or entertainment directly into a business conversation, we have become highly adept individuals. And I think these are some of the fundamental things that are driving the expansion of the market United.  

[00:10:30] So when I fall on the surface, I don't think the legacy financial institutions have a lot. Room to grow and provide new services with their existing infrastructure. They are opening up. So the core financial institutions or the financial infrastructure to these fintechs, which can provide a different user experience and different new capabilities to the consumers.  

[00:10:55] And I think the consumer gets a choice. If you want a self-service transactional experience ready quick, you have that ability. Or if you want an in-person more detailed experience, you can go to the, so I think the market  

[00:11:06] Yadin Porter de Leon: stuff. Yeah, I know. And I think some of that, some, some of the institutions are adapting to it.  

[00:11:10] Well, where you look at your phone, you look at the app and the app experience. Isn't like we have everything under the sun and there's like a billion different buttons. And like, you get lost really easy in the Texas small, and it's not a smooth interface. Some of them have created the super simple, like incredibly like do two or three things.  

[00:11:24] It's crazy. Ease and out. But do you feel like some, some institutions that haven't been. To do that or adapt to that. Do you feel like they need, uh, to like to acquire a FinTech company and spin them out to do something like, you know, to get a mortgage really quickly or find a car loan or do some specialty components?  

[00:11:39] Do you feel like it really needs to be a different brand, a different app? Or do you feel like these legacy companies can really actually take that brand and really reach out in a trusted way to this new generation and provide those really rich experience that FinTech companies can come? Can they disrupt themselves?  

[00:11:52] How you, I guess that's what I'm talking  

[00:11:53] Anudeep Parhar: about I think the traditional wisdom, at least in technology will tell us that that's very hard. The easier part to do. And this is, you know, I've seen it, you know, if you go back in the nineties, when the internet came up and then now in the two thousands, with the emergence of the cloud, it's very difficult to do things inside.  

[00:12:11] You can do it. That's really hard, but if you either, there are multiple ways to do it. You can, you know, you can have innovation models that have succeeded are, you know, your in-house. Separate innovation organizations, which can help you do some of that work. You know, you can sort of build a company within a company or even apply it and then you can spin them off.  

[00:12:29] Or you can, uh, you know, have a vested interest that you can buy into company or invest into other companies, which are doing some of this work. So there are maybe it's business models to get there, but from my brand, you getting the underlying theme with all of those large companies are still going to be responsible.  

[00:12:47] The large fintechs are still going to be the arbiters of. Either that is a lot of conversation around de-centralization of the trust, but still these organizers we'll need to provide the fundamental fabric of trust because Irrespective of the, either the fintechs and or another way of spending a few capabilities, you know, we still need, it's all comes back to the trust that you trust, how the obligations are working.  

[00:13:10] And if you trust, you know, your personal information with that, there are several use cases just in the last year. And, you know, with the emergence of all the crypto stuff, there are very large organizations which have had trouble scaling. They've gotten the business. And they have gotten huge amounts of scale because what they built is really a factor to the populace at large, but they'd be, they've had trouble scaling and usually the scaling trouble happens as with securing the application.  

[00:13:39] The hackers are ahead of you and you're always catching up. And that's where I think the larger organization have the expedience and the wherever though. I wouldn't say intelligence because intelligence exists in both smaller companies and big companies. It's just that some people have the ability to do invest in both some of that infrastructure first and the others are, you know, which build the obligation.  

[00:13:57] Yadin Porter de Leon: That makes sense. I'm really glad that you mentioned that too, because the decentralized versus centralized there's set the central banks where like the central arbiters of trust. They're the clearing houses. They're the single points of trust where, you know, you transact through them and not directly with somebody else, but then you have.  

[00:14:13] Concerns that you just outlined to where, like, if you have, for example, there's some applications where if you want to make a blockchain transaction yeah. You want to buy a little bit of Bitcoin that may take a few days to clear before it actually hits your account. And that seriously erodes trust.  

[00:14:29] Isn't the example across the board, but there's situations in which you have an application and you want to make a blockchain transaction. All of a sudden you're, you know, normally it might take 20 minutes, 30 minutes, but then sometimes it could take hours and that's, that's a serious concern and that's a scale concern.  

[00:14:41] So I think one of the things that from sort of, from an infrastructure perspective, like you had just mentioned at a deep, which I think is probably one of the most sort of fascinating sort of rubber meets the road, you know, conversation components is do these, you know, older institutions have, you know, the ability to take some legacy infrastructure and really adapt to the new.  

[00:14:58] And is there are also, there are security concerns with some of the newer FinTech companies, and maybe that's actually even more of an interesting topic where these new FinTech companies are moving quickly. What are some of the risks, the security risks, and the trust risk of moving that fast, it leveraging some of these new technologies and then being the first ones to see whether or not, you know, you can pull in, uh, enough people and keep them.  

[00:15:22] So, you know, how, how did, how do they scale? How do they keep these people maybe while they're innovating so quickly and staying ahead of it,  

[00:15:28] Anudeep Parhar: that's a really fascinating et cetera, point of view, right? Especially some of the, some of the defy stuff, you know, the de-centralized the concept and this is my personal opinion.  

[00:15:36] I think the concept is extremely solvent. I think.  

[00:15:39] Yadin Porter de Leon: Yeah. And I think you said a sloppy, famous, decentralized finance, right? Right. Yeah. Right. It's like,  

[00:15:45] Anudeep Parhar: you know, the concept and being a technologist, I get fascinated by this stuff. This is not a new concept it's been around for a while. It's just, it's really coming into and do a sort of operationalization and consumerization of some of this stuff into the past decade or so.  

[00:15:58] Right. So what, when we, you know, in my mind, would be seen as now there'll be a pressure testing, sort of the decentralized trust. And if people are like, okay, I get it. I understand why de-centralize marble would work when you start translating that from say, you know, your traditional algorithm development into application development, where people can consume it and make businesses around it.  

[00:16:19] What we're seeing is that there's a lot of kinks that need to be armed. And I think this is where going back to your question around how large fintechs or larger financial institutions in a way it is, you cannot have a wait and see for these loans, they either need to invest, or they need to do to change the model to say, this is how reality works.  

[00:16:38] And what I mean by that is for example, a fundamental concept of blockchain for example, is that once a transaction is written, that cannot be bad. And that itself can be turned on its head. And it's recently happened where if you are having a transaction is erroneous and has been performed, IE money, or Bitcoin has been taken out of your account.  

[00:16:59] Yeah, which is very counter to some of the whole concept of it being secure.  

[00:17:04] Yadin Porter de Leon: I know it's uneasy when you have, when you're used to doing instantaneous transactions that have efficacy insurance to them, it's a little bit of a shift to be able to move something like that.  

[00:17:12] Anudeep Parhar: Yeah. So what you're seeing is in my mind as like, I think that it's still a little bit of, uh, and I, I know this is not the specific topic that we want to get into, but, but there is still a little bit more settling that needs to happen.  

[00:17:25] What, what is going to emerge as the winning strategy for de-centralized trusts to take home? I personally think decentralized trust is here to stay. It is going to fundamentally change it, but we need to sort of figure it out how, uh, how the traditional organizations are going to benefit from, from decentralized trust.  

[00:17:40] It's just a fantastic. No it is,  

[00:17:43] Yadin Porter de Leon: it is. I like that the point that you bring out and I think worth underlining the fact that you cannot wait, you have to invest. I think that's one key piece that sort of the, if you take away from is that you can't just wait and see, see what works, see what settles out, because there is a key core capability that larger enterprises have, and they have that, like you said, they have the cash, they have the fortitude and they have the experience of scale.  

[00:18:02] The massive scale that some of these critically globally, you know, uh, you know, uh, trusted institutions have to scale at that level and understanding what it takes, I think is a profound asset that the FinTech companies don't necessarily have. And I think taking advantage of that is something that they need to do when you talk about investing now.  

[00:18:20] But one thing I think that you touched on what I really want to sort of dive into, is that, is it, what are some of those concerns? And from your perspective, when it comes to identity and trust, you talked about getting hacked and say in a blockchain transaction, you know, there's, you know, front runner bots and lots of other things out there that can, you know, potentially undermine the fundamental foundation of trust in certain technologies.  

[00:18:40] What are the things that scare you when it comes to identity and trust? And some of the things that the. Some of the boundaries that the fintechs are kind of pushing, because I'm wondering from an enterprise perspective, what is, what should I be concerned about as a CIO when I want to talk about innovation and I want to talk about pushing the boundaries?  

[00:18:58] Anudeep Parhar: Certainly. So here's how I, I simply think about the stuff that is, that are two modes of innovation. One is your let's call it the digital cloud or our digital height. You know, your, your basics of security as well as foundational security infrastructure. The other one is innovative applications where you have mobile applications, FinTech obligations.  

[00:19:19] I think the way I CCI as need to think about it, as you still got to keep the foundation, it still applies to some of these new FinTech, as well as new mobile applications as well. If you try to innovate or move both of them at the same time, you will probably not come out as ahead as you would like. So what I mean by that?  

[00:19:37] I think that has lot of legs and we should double down on building new experiences using some of these new FinTech and deceptive methodologies. But example of using API is to be able to provide very vertical, specific applications, which are just in time, but use the foundational security hygiene that empowers big organizations that is a fundamental gap with smaller organizations and several examples, you know, even the boss, 12 to 14 months.  

[00:20:06] We're very good ideas have been turning south or bad brand names or very poor customer experience. If it didn't have basic security hygiene. So I think people need to pay attention in my opinion, to your fundamental, to get a D in digital hygiene. And then in a way it on the, on the consumer experience.  

[00:20:25] Yadin Porter de Leon: No, I think that's a good perspective. And from a sort of. No technology leaders or perspective, or even a business outcome perspective, you might say that well, can we want to make sure that we're leading with security, but there's concern that, okay. Well, are we going to be able to move as fast? There's a feeling that maybe we're not going to be able to move as fast as some of these FinTech companies, uh, can, when we have this type of serious security concern, but like you said, What fascinates me is that, that it's not a, it's not a question of if it's, you have to make it happen.  

[00:20:51] Uh, and, and how do you overcome sort of that sentiment that you might lose agility, you might lose speed, you might lose, you know, market leadership. If you take this approach and how do you sort of overcome those barriers? And I think most of this, you know, the, the thrust of this is how do you dispel that?  

[00:21:05] Perception that that is the case. How do you talk to people that you know about how you can have the secure, trusted, you know, a foundation, but also have a delightful end user experience and you can move quickly. And how do you, how do you communicate? How do you do that? How do you inspire others to make that leap? 

[00:21:23] Anudeep Parhar: the way I see this as this is not that it used to be in the back of the bay, that these words that are opposing and mutually exclusive quality, either you can get security or you can get used. You know, to our previous fines, especially some of the newer disruption that the screens have used, that they have proven that you can do both at the same time.  

[00:21:44] The point I'm trying to make is. You do not need to reinvent security completely in order to power a FinTech deceptive experience, it has to be done in tandem. You can easily build better user experiences, new user experiences, which are more [00:22:00] digitally native, but you can, you can certainly still keep using, you know, there's a hygiene.  

[00:22:04] If you don't have digital security hygiene today, it's not going to help you and a future and tech application either. So, so the first thing is you gotta have the basics of trust and security build within the organization. Yeah. Otherwise, irrespective of, if it's a deceptive application, I know it's going to it's at some point, it's going to fail  

[00:22:23] Yadin Porter de Leon: if you want, but if you fall down and no one trust you, then you know, then that you're not wrapped up in anything.  

[00:22:28] Anudeep Parhar: Absolutely. I mean, you see like a lot of examples and I don't want to use particular names, but it's, it's exactly what's happening today. People are the companies who have, who are, they are so fortunate that they actually have users and consumers, the growth hoods that are. Double and sometimes triple digits, but.  

[00:22:46] Either they consume it extreme is the actual support experience suffers. Why? Because they don't have the basic hygiene of well, making sure that the simplest transaction is secure and that's because it hasn't been sort of built from the beginning. And, you know, it's hard to come back and retrofit some of the basic security stuff, simple things like, you know, to be able to validate your accounts, using biometrics on multi-factor authentication.  

[00:23:08] If that's not both that, and you gotta eat out of the whole thing. And, uh, usually these companies don't have the means to be able to do that. And I think that's where the larger organizations to your previous point with the legacy organizations can sort of help when they provide some of these, for example, API APIs for the broader FinTech world.  

[00:23:27] And don't just provide access to the core underlying infrastructure, but also. Availability and security are extremely, extremely important. If those coupled together, if you provide access to F I financial institution infrastructure in a secure manner, which is readily available, even if the corporations have to pay a price for that, you know, that's the winning strategies.  

[00:23:48] Yadin Porter de Leon: No, I think, I think that's a good perspective. And two there's also that one, there's another layer of complexity, of course. And we haven't even really dug into global regulatory environments when it comes to, you know, a brick and mortar or brick and click versus a mobile native cloud data FinTech first.  

[00:24:01] Uh, and do you feel like it might even in some circumstances, some of the experience that some of these established enterprise companies have have given them a huge advantage from a regulatory perspective, they've got huge teams. That from it, and also from legal and from leadership that have been able to help them negotiate a lot of this.  

[00:24:17] So the global scale component, too, do you feel like summer is actually an advantage over some of the faster moving FinTech companies that still have to adapt from a regulatory standpoint? How does that add a layer of complexity? When you're talking about trust, you're talking about end user experience and you're talking about security.  

[00:24:34] Anudeep Parhar: Fantastic question the India. So for example, and especially in Europe, you know, usually really from a compliance and regulatory obligations, point of view, and the rigor either Europe specifically is usually ahead of us in the world. They've done a really good job building some of these regulatory frameworks.  

[00:24:51] Interesting thing is that the entire concept of open banking. So they emerged and the E and what they have been able to bold these structures, where do my previous point. Fintechs don't just have access to the raw infrastructure, meaning they don't have access to just saying I can build into your bank's API APIs and do some interesting things in terms of payments or mortgage applications or approvals, et cetera.  

[00:25:15] But they're also maturing into saying that has to be provided with the right amount of trust and the security infrastructure around it. So they are, they are taking it upon themselves to build consortium's of radius. For example, in the UK with various banks. To provide not only on open infrastructure for fintechs to innovator, but also an open and secure infrastructure.  

[00:25:36] It hasn't been easy, but they've been able to do and nothing the rest of the world needs to need to sort of learn from that and build something like that. No,  

[00:25:42] Yadin Porter de Leon: I think that's interesting. That's fascinating piece about that is because you're talking about trust on two different levels. One that's consumer trust is the one who's consuming.  

[00:25:49] That experience, but then what you're talking about right now too, is also inter-agency inner banking. You know, inter-governmental trust where if you are a smaller organization, it's going to be much harder for you to get over the hurdle of, [00:26:00] should I let this new and exciting and you know, and just wonderful, you know, new piece of technology, is this going to be a good experience for, you know, for our city, for our state, for our nation, for our region.  

[00:26:10] And is it they're going to be able to actually do the heavy lift of compliance? There's a component of trust, actually from a regulatory and global, you know, uh, you know, secure. Yeah perspective that are you going to be able to, as a smaller, faster agile company, going to be able to break into that scale, that global markets scale as you are versus, you know, more established company, you know, has those relationships in place?  

[00:26:30] Anudeep Parhar: Absolutely. You know, we are seeing this now and the entire idea of, for example, trust and qualified trust, right? The qualified  

[00:26:38] Yadin Porter de Leon: to explain. Explain that. That sounds interesting. Explain that.  

[00:26:41] Anudeep Parhar: So what's happening is, you know, for example, if you look at even simple things like digital signatures, and you can have a digital signature, which says, you know, you send me a document of sign and send it.  

[00:26:51] Well, that's just a simple signature, right? That's an electronic signature, which is essentially an on the efficiency of paperless office. The next thing is, how do I, how do you know. Well, you can use tools that are available today to be able to say, well, you're going to have to, you know, you're going to have to have some security apparatus behind it.  

[00:27:07] Let's call it advanced signatures to be able to say that, in fact, I am who I am, right? This is none of the powerhouse. I ended the document. Then the third level, which is a qualified trust specifically, it comes in large like government transactions or where you are providing social services to your constituents in a government environment, or you're doing large financial transactions.  

[00:27:29] That's the qualifier of trust, which means is what is the level of validation going into it saying, in fact who you are, you are who you are, meaning if I can sign the application, how do I prove it as me? Who, who assigning it? Do I have a validation around a qualification, but it's saying this is my passport.  

[00:27:46] It says this, or is it the biometric? So I, I think as the use cases expand. Purely commercial and get into some of the social fabric way of where we are dealing with providing social services or providing these other citizens, government to citizen type like services. The where validation of identity is extremely important.  

[00:28:08] And I think that's where some of the quantified stuff comes in and that's an emerging thing that's happening in the European union right now, which I think is going to expand globally as well. But these guys are innovating at a much faster rate. If you see the, you know, what's called a QTS fee, which is a qualified trust service provider, that the emergence of those qualified trust providers is a very critical floor.  

[00:28:29] Listen tire. Is that an apparatus to grow into? Sorry. I  

[00:28:32] Yadin Porter de Leon: think you've got that. There's two levels that where you've got that, you know, the, the technology innovation, but. Regulatory innovation. And then there's the execution of that. And that's, you know, process innovation, which, which are components that are, that are key and also sort of more leaning towards, you know, larger established organizations.  

[00:28:47] And I think that's a good place to end that part of the conversation and, and sort of transition to what we call, um, take it to the board. Um, and so you're, you know, you're a CIO, you're in a company too, and other technology leaders, you know, [00:29:00] who are, you know, are in similar situations, have to have executive, you know, Conversations board level conversations.  

[00:29:07] One thing that we like to do here is to make sure that we sort of distill this down to what's that thing that you would take to the board. What can larger companies, maybe companies who might've been held back previously, or companies are looking to take the next step or how, or have some momentum and to accelerate the momentum.  

[00:29:23] What do you feel like that next board level conversation should be? Whether it's from a CIO or from the, you know, to the chief technology leader or line of business leader should be so, you know, maybe you could have. Take, uh, take this conversation to the board. What's that what's sort of the top one, two or three things that are really should be taken to the board and be front of mind and should constantly be discussed each time they have check-ins and get status reports.  

[00:29:46] Anudeep Parhar: So a couple of ways of looking at it, first of all, I'll take a little bit different.  

[00:29:51] Yadin Porter de Leon: Right. That's a great advice as well. Yeah, because  

[00:29:56] Anudeep Parhar: you know, traditionally, you know, say the last couple of [00:30:00] decades, one way to get sort of the, you know, and I'm doing air quotes. I know we are, we are not being on video, but like to get approval of security project, it's been as the fear-mongering, you know, it's kind of like saying, well, if you don't do this, remember what happened to X, Y, Z.  

[00:30:14] That's doesn't work anymore in a, you cannot set a fee, put fear and the board to say, if you don't do this, hence that I think you have to come from a point of view, kind of like what we are talking about, which is that as intrinsic business value in securing and doing some of the things we are talking about, you know, to building some of those hygiene within the company, just like we, won't nobody questions today that when you build something, you said quality.  

[00:30:37] Because that's everybody understands that. So I think that you have to bring common sense into the conversation and you have to use industry metrics to talk about this stuff. Second thing largely is there is actually value creation associated with providing a highly secure, as well as basic tested solutions to your customers.  

[00:30:57] This is not just a costing model, it's creates value. And that's a harder conversation in some organizations on the other, but with the digital transformation happening, literally in every corner and every industry, this is a value creation apparatus. And I would encourage CIO is our technology leaders to take a back view to the boards rather than saying, this is yet another cost we'd like you to incur.  

[00:31:19] Let's say, no, this is how it makes our brand, but this is how it helps our customers. The idea. Customer success. How do your customers succeed if you don't have some of these things? So I think that's sort of the advice that I would give and it's been highly successful for me personally, in order to convince our board as well as some of my peers.  

[00:31:37] No, I think that's a much more powerful way to approach it. Well, energy. I really appreciate you coming on the show. Um, before we go, though, I want to make sure that if you, uh, you want to tell everyone anywhere that you can find you, whether it's on social media or any other platform, where, where can they find you out there in the middle?  

[00:31:53] Anudeep Parhar: Uh, you know, pretty much everywhere other than that, you know, you know, if you send me a letter, I probably won't respond, but, [00:32:00] uh, you know, I'm on the usual places. Like then it's usually my professional network, you know, if you had adjusted on socially what I do, I'm, I'm on the usual Facebooks and Instagrams.  

[00:32:11] So I use me to keep my Twitter, which has my, my handle is on that under the par and my LinkedIn profile, which is fairly obvious and available for all my courses. Musics and Facebook, Instagram, and, and some of the other social platforms for if, if you're interested in world music and all different kinds of things that I like to inspire.  

[00:32:31] Yadin Porter de Leon: Excellent. Excellent. We'll put those in the show notes as well. So, um, what's, uh, what's that one topic that they might find on, you know, like in addition to world music, if they're looking on Twitter or somewhere else, that's, you know, that's outside that realm of strictly professional. Uh,  

[00:32:45] Anudeep Parhar: a lot to do, you know, I'm a big, and not for the lack of trying, I'm not very good at making music, but I'm very good at listening to music, all kinds, all kinds, you know, so, and believe me, not for trying.  

[00:32:58] I mean, I, you know, so any type of music, music is my choice, but you know, big into, into sort of traditional know jazz and some of the, some of the older American music, that's really exciting to me. And, you know, things like that. Hey, if anybody watches, uh, uh, some old movies on for that as well. And finally, if you're into baking goods, uh,  

[00:33:20] Yadin Porter de Leon: now  

[00:33:21] Anudeep Parhar: I love doing that.  

[00:33:22] I got, I got, I got 30 pounds to prove it that  

[00:33:27] Yadin Porter de Leon: excellent. Anudeep, thank you so much for joining us CIO exchange podcast.  

[00:33:31] Anudeep Parhar: Absolutely. Thank you very much. This was a pleasure. It was a lot of fun.  

[00:33:35] Yadin Porter de Leon: Thank you for listening to this latest episode, please consider subscribing to the show on apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.  

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